There are so many made-to-measure suit companies to choose from these days. Most of them operate online and manufacture overseas, which is why custom suits are so much more affordable than they used to be.
But having a suit made without being measured in person by a master tailor is an inherently difficult process. To ensure great results, you have to do two things:
- Over-communicate
- Choose the right company
You should only work with MTM suit makers who have a reputation for outstanding customer service. You want companies that will analyze your measurements like detectives at the scene of a crime, who will bend over backwards to make sure you’re happy.
You want companies who are willing to remake your suit, even if that means losing money on their first transaction with you, because they know how valuable a lifelong customer is.
I’m talking about companies like Black Lapel and Oliver Wicks (formerly known as Dragon Inside).
Unfortunately, there are many custom suit brands who don’t show this level of dedication to their customers.
Oftentimes, it’s the budget brands that you need to watch out for. There’s a reason a $300 custom suit seems to good to be true. It is.
A while back, a company called Tailor4Less reaches out to me about working together. I’ve actually heard good things about T4L, although they have mixed reviews on the web, so we decide to go forward with a suit review.
I choose a tan linen two piece suit, submit my measurements and place the order (which, I should mention, is free).
The suit arrives in roughly three weeks, which is fast for MTM, but there are some problems with the way it fits.
You should always send feedback about your MTM order, including photos. Here’s what I send to my Tailor4Less point of contact:
Typically, after you give your feedback, the company then responds with their analysis about the suit they made. Then you decide how to proceed (which usually involves some combination of alterations and remakes).
In this case, T4L says they agree with my analysis (without offering any of their own). They ask me to get the suit tailored and say they’ll reimburse me.
This is when I start losing faith in Tailor4Less.
Having your local tailor perform a couple of basic alterations on a custom suit is perfectly acceptable. But this suit has a slew of fit problems, including some that I can’t even diagnose, like the biceps and the hips.
So before taking it to my tailor for major surgery, I express my concerns in another email to T4L:
Here’s what I get back:
I was confused by this response, but I figured out that he’s asking me to confirm how much it would cost to get the suit altered locally.
T4L is trying to figure out if it would cost more to remake the jacket or reimburse me for tailoring.
They don’t trust my estimate ($200), and they want me to make a trip to the tailor to get an official estimate.
After some more back and forth, they decide to remake the jacket, and I agree to get the pants tailored. They ask me to measure the jacket so they can compare it to my measurement profile.
I send over these measurements and… crickets. No response for over two weeks. I check in to see what’s going on and get this response:
They want me to measure the jacket again, this time taking a photo of each measurement. Again, there’s a lack of trust here.
At this point, I throw in the towel and tell Tailor4Less that I can’t recommend their service to my readers. I explain that most men aren’t willing to (and shouldn’t be expected to) put in this much work for a made-to-measure suit.
More importantly, custom clothiers should trust their customers. They shouldn’t ask you to prove that your measurements are accurate.
They should care about you enough to offer detailed feedback about their work.
Finally, they should do everything in their power to make sure you get a suit that fits wonderfully, even if that requires a remake.
All things considered, I recommend avoiding Tailor4Less. If you’re on a tight budget, go to Modern Tailor.
Otherwise, I recommend Oliver Wicks or Black Lapel.
Have you ever had a bad MTM experience? Share it below in the comments section!
I ordered suit for my son from Hockerty. It is a total disaster. Not only it took a week longer to deliver but also the suit is realy small. My son can’t even put it on. I have no idea how they made is so tiny . We are greatly disappointed. We should of went to the shop and get a ready one. We have no time to buy a new one now and my son end up with no suit to put on to his brother wedding. It is a total scam!
I ordered a wool suit from Hockerty in April 2017. On Nov.17,2017, as I was sitting down at the breakfast table, the fabric of the trousers split at the seat.The material was of such poor quality it did not last 7 months!! I asked the company to replace the trousers, but they refused, saying it was beyond the 30 day period they have for any replacements. They asked me to pay for another pair of trousers with a “discount”.
If this were a New Zealand company, they would have been bound by our Consumer Guarantee law to issue a full refund or replacement. This company is using its offshore location to get away with ignoring their responsibility to customers. Very poor attitude. I will never buy from them again.
Nice article. I’m pleased that you are happy to leave a bad review as I’m about to order an Oliver Wicks suit, for which you have done a few favourable articles. I’m a little more confident they weren’t just paying you to write your article using their name (OW).
Oh, T4L have changed their name to Hockerty. There is a popup that tells you, but easy to click off and miss.
“T4L have changed their name to Hockerty” Good to know. Thanks.
The worst financial decision I have made for a long time.
Do not let the slick, interactive website fool you. Everything is fine until the product arrives (in a flat cardboard box). The sizes were sooo wrong! Shoulders too tight, sleeves too long, trousers too long, waist too big. I spent £380!
Luckily they have a ‘perfect fit guarantee’, so there is some process to avoid total failure. They asked to send pictures, so I did. They said they will pay for cost of alterations (up to 25% of 380), so I took it to the tailor, who felt sorry for me. They said this is so bad, I should just ask for my money back. So I did.
The response was that it’s impossible to refund, so they promised to remake the suit.
So to ensure there were no mistakes, I paid a professional tailor to take my measurements according to tailor4less’ instructions. While doing this, I noticed that the video showed them measuring down to the floor, but the description said to measure to the trouser end. A clear 100% mistake that I made them aware of.
I live in the UK so I had to pay £14 to send the package to Spain. Of course, they refused to pay for this.
After a few weeks, the suit finally arrived. This time not even in a box!
And guess what?
It still did not fit. Shoulders better but still not right. Sleeves too long. Trousers better but still too long and not very ‘slim fit’.
I also received a cheeky invoice for $15, which I think came from Shanghai! LOL, this went straight in the bin.
So what happened next?
I emailed them and asked to refund the cost of alterations, because hopefully this time the suit can actually be altered. Their response was they can only issue the refund by giving me store credit to shop in tailor4less. I DO NOT WANT STORE CREDIT BECAUSE I AM NEVER BUYING FROM YOU EVER AGAIN!
At the end of the day, these people need to be put out of business. Even though they clear made a mistake, as I showed in the measurement instructions, they still think I’m wrong and they are right.
I have never been so stressed about a purchase. NEVER
DISCLAIMER: Hopefully this will discourage potential buyers and end up costing them a lot more than the £380 they did not refund me. In fact you will see this review on every possible review website. If they want me to take it down, my price will be much higher than a few hundred pounds.
I already warned them about my willingness to write terrible reviews, but they just had to stick to their policy didn’t they.
Best of luck,
Rob Skeens
Don’t waste your money ! I ordered a jacket and had to return it due to a fault. I received a replacement but this was about 4 sizes too big, clearly nothing like a made-to-measure jacket, and after spending 4 months trying to get a replacement, have tried to get a refund via paypal. Customer service is rubbish, and the business model is to get something approximately close, and get you to find a tailor to get it correct.
Absolute con artists!! My suit came and it was a Chinese import, very badly made, really bad material and so thin it wouldn’t last 5mins of wear. It was actually laughable what turned up, but my smile didn’t last for long when I got on with their appalling customer service. They wouldn’t refund my hard earned money and instead said they would make me a new suit. After getting nowhere with customer service I had to accept them to re make it. So I go through all the rigmarole of sending them pictures of me in my appalling suit and send it back to them. That done they then turn around and say I have to pay another £20 for postage, because they can’t make a suit properly!! I was forced to pay £20 or lose £300 I paid for the suit. Absolute joke!! So another month passes and another suit turns up that as badly made and fits worse than the first!!! I’m at the end of my tether with them and I will be reporting to trading standards!! Joke of a company simply out to rip you off, of your money. AVOID!!!
Just bought a suit from these people and I am less than impressed. The front panels on the jacket do not match causing bagginess and unsightly creases on the left side of the jacket. The trousers were made too big in the waist and are so baggy in the bum and legs. The suit does not fit like a glove. I went to a tailor and have sent pictures as instructed. I was informed by the tailor that the suit could not be adjusted. Even if it could be adjusted, only £30 is offered to cover the alterations which would be half the cost I was quoted. In addition the hem on the right trouser leg is shocking. On their website they say that if a suit can not be altered that they will make a new one from scratch after the original suit is returned at the customer’s expense. I have already paid for a suit to be made to measure that should fit like a glove. They made it wrong, why should I as the customer pay more? The suit cost £209. I would have been better off buying a suit from a decent outlet and taking it to get altered so the jacket fits better. I bought two decent suits from Greenwoods for £160 in the sale not so long ago. Add £54 for altering the jackets, £214 for two suits that would look made to measure.
Avoid. Do not use this company
Hey there Brock!
You seem to have high experience with online MDM clothes. My problem is… I’m looking for a high closed mandarin style jacket, not the classical single- or double breasted with two or three buttons. And Tailor4less is the only site I was able to find that is even offering such a custom made jacket. I wasn’t lucky with some tailors either. They all just don’t sell such jackets or are unwilling to make them.
Do you maybe have an idea where to get such a custom made jacket from…? Preferably online since I don’t want to jet half across the world for such a suit.
Thanks for the help!
We have a program called You See It, We Make it – essentially we can make many jacket styles out there. Our Shanghai master tailor has experience making the ‘mandarin’ jacket i think you are referring to.
I ordered two suits and a pair of trousers from Tailor4Less. Not just ill-fitting, but absolutely terrible quality. Not half canvas, despite their claims to the contrary. Had them remade to new measurements, with extra insistence from my side that they be properly half canvas (which they again said they would be), but they aren’t. Thin, insubstantial, don’t sit right. Complete waste of money. And all this after literally months of emails backwards and forwards, as half the time they don’t answer the question or only address half the points.
**** AVOID!!! ****
Buyer beware. My name is Tim, my order #15611202016. This company will send you the wrong item, and tell you that it is what you ordered. I ordered seven waistcoats, one jacket, and a shirt for my wedding. One of two reasons that I used Tailor4less was the cost, as I was paying for my groomsmen. The second reason is that I could not find any other company that made the clothing articles in the material that I was looking for. The jacket needed some small tailoring but nothing that I did not expect. The shirt fits fine. The waistcoats all fit the gentleman for whom they were for. The problem is, the back of the waistcoat was a gaudy “Joker” purple for no apparent reason. I could have worked around this but the groomsmen won’t be wearing jackets. I open a “support ticket” and received a response. The response was that I did not pay extra for the front to match the back. There is obviously a language barrier and their customer service because this same email went back-and-forth six times(this all happened over two weeks because they do not respond quickly) with me saying that I understood and that is not what I want. I only wanted to be back to not be totally missed matched and perhaps match the color of the lining. With this I was told that they were made to their standard and a support ticket was closed. I have no recourse in this situation. I will be seeking legal action because it was in over $1000 but I doubt that gets me anywhere.
Well, no one will be surprised when I say what everyone else has already said. I so wish I had read this before ordering my tux with them. I would post pics but they are too embarrassing. The Jacket looked like a waiters coat, the neck of the shirt would not button, the pants were too big and the vest was too small. They were very difficult to communicate with and because of all this the 2 events I was going to wear the tux to will not happen. They agreed to remake the jacket and shirt if I paid shipping, so I did. I did not have a choice. I did ask for a credit so I could order something of use, and they would not do that. When the remade suit arrives, we’ll see. They asked for pics and seamstress measurements over and over even after i had sent them. Only upside is that if it is right then I’ll have a tux on standby. Terrible at comTailor is much better at shirts, I have also used Original Stitch for shirts and once I got the measurement right they were good, but they were easy to work with for a remake and they had a US rep who spoke english well. Stay away from tailor4less. I will post this on their website as well after my suit arrives, but I doubt they will keep it on there.
Hi there!
I’ve had an extremely bad experience with Tailor4less.com. I spent nearly 300 euro for a “sack of shoddy cloth” instead of a made-to-measure suit.
The product doesn’t correspond to the description, it’s totally awful. But they don’t give a damn, because they are from China, Shanghai, no EU rules on E-Commerce apply there.
Basically, it’s a SCAM. Beware!
Don’t do it.. Absolutely horrible. Spent almost $500 on a suit that is poorly made, cut wrong and did not use measurements given. After arguing through email back and forth, the only answer they can give is take it to a taylor. They not only have false advertisement, “for which I am talking to an attorney about” but they do not stand behind anything they say. Just please, don’t waste your time or money, you get what you pay for. The other major lesson I have learned, deal with a local dealer with any purchase you make so you can have any issues addressed properly. I have all the emails to prove the arguments of the “rep” and I exchanging over and over. Big waste of time and money. And also, I did take the suit to a very reputable taylor in town and they mentioned that there is no way to repair the suit because of how poorly it was made, for which it would cause issues with the material.
I’m very worried now. I ordered blazer from T4L recently. It was shipped from China by DHL and then was held up in customs for 4 days because they had put the wrong shipping information on it. They were very unhelpful in getting it cleared from customs and just kept telling I had to contact DHL. Eventually my blazer arrived yesterday, I took it out of the packaging and my immediate thought was that it looked really good just like my online design, but a little on the small side. I tried it on and it was tiny. I’m not a big guy 5ft 8″, the chest size is a least 3″ too small, the length is too short by about 2″ and the arms about an 1″ too short. They have asked for photo’s of me wearing it like others have said here. After reading other comments on here I fear now my chances of getting it remade are as about as slim as the jacket!
I too have had an unpleasant experience with Tailor4Less. Between March and June 2016, I have ordered 5 jackets from them and only 2 of them I could consider satisfactory. The others were more or less OK, but there was always something that did not go well. The last straw was when I received my latest order, a dark gray light wool jacket.
I had ordered it with horizontal pockets, as it was the first time such a “normal” option was offered, instead of the “angled” pockets that they used to offer, with no alternative –which were acceptable, although not very classical. When my jacket arrived, I saw it still featured the somewhat unusual “angled” pockets. I complained about that. It also came with 3 pockets, but THAT mistake was mine, made during the somewhat confusing ordering process (they have recently changed the website interface, not for the best).
Then, I noticed that the buttonhole on the lapel has been placed 1.5 cm from the top of the lapel, i.e. ridiculously too close to the edge (the distance on all my other Tailor4Less jackets is 2.5 cm, ans that’s fine). That is something that jumps to the eye, you can’t help noticing it.
Therefore, because of the “angled” pockets instead of the straight, horizontal ones, and above all because of the ridiculous lapel buttonhole, I asked them for a remake.
And I don’t even mention that they gave me a hard time over my justified complaints, asking me for photos and making me spend hours sending various email messages to explain what should have been readily understood by any knowledgeable sales assistant.
For indeed the guy I had to deal with in Customer Service (if it can be called that) was obviously quite young and had no clue what a garment is. He could have been selling tyres or video games just as well. Anyway, the bottom line is, they refused flat out the remake that I was asking for, even though it was particularly justified —not to mention that I had been a very good customer for them, having spent 7-800 euros over 3 months.
I found their attitude impossible to understand and I strongly advise all prospective customers to do business with those people. Know that, the minute something goes wrong, they will let you down in spite of their much-touted commitments to customer: that is all b.s.
I am very disappointed as I expected to give them a lot more business in the future but they didn’t seem to care.
Absolutely disgusting company to deal with –
Had a shirt made by them, it didn’t fit (sleeves were too long, despite my accurate measurements)
Insisted I send the item to Spain (at my cost) to be ‘inspected’
Then got a VAT import bill – again, refused to help – despite it clearly stating on their website in the FAQ there are no additional charges!
Absolute scam, avoid at all costs.
I’d like to know why there are no reviews here on this site for Vulture Suits while Cecil is seeming to use this forum as a sales hub. No offense meant for anyone at all (Brock or Cecil). Normally blog owners don’t allow vendors who do not pay them to directly sell via their blogs.
If Brock is simply allowing this without “charging” the vendor, it’s most unusual but highly laudable. It shows Brock wants to create an incredibly honest and transparent resource. If so, YAY BROCK! Ultimately, the public is going to learn the difference between “sponsored” vendors on “review sites” and review sites of integrity that cannot be bought.
I am not sure why Cecil’s name is in link form (which makes him seem “sponsored”) but, again, maybe this blog allows that. Amazing, but I’d like to learn more!
Katherine, im not a sponsor – we are a small startup business and do not have the funds like other big names to pay for sponsorship. We rely on quality products, low margins, and reliable North American customer service to grow. I’m simply letting people know about a low cost, but quality, alternative to T4L. I don’t see any conflict of interest here. If people who have purchased from us due to my comments here feel their suit is not how I said it is (high quality fabric, good workmanship, and low cost), then no one is denying them to post their response here. In fact, many of our customers find their suits to be very good in terms of fitting, quality, and cost. I invited them to send us a few pictures and a few words about it, but not all have the time or effort to do it. We are in the process of gathering customer feedback, and will post them as testimonials on our website when we have gathered enough response. I’m also giving a good amount discount for TMM readers to try our suits and perhaps review them, so it’s really a win-win situation for all.
Finally, the comment system asks me to put my website, and it automatically links my display name to my site, just like how you can link your name to your website.
Cecil, I have no problem with you commenting on this post or any other post, but I think Katherine has a point – your comments have become very “sales pitchy”, which is probably not good for readers or Vulture Suits.
This comments section really isn’t the right venue for promotion.
Hi Brock-
Thanks for clarifying that.
May I say- you are awesome? Having been in the arena of fitting at a distance and knowing the horrendous pitfalls lying in wait for the uninformed, hopeful customer, I just love what you are doing here, I think it is very SMART, and -as I said- I just only wish I had had the time or a partner to do this work you are doing for the women’s arena.
Wish: a “table of contents” for all your posts esp all your reviews, so if someone wants to read the reviews of all the vendors to date, they can find them without looking thru every past post. I have a friend whom I am trying to assist in getting a men’s blazer now with a few special parameters and was hoping to read all your M2M men’s suit maker reviews.
I will get with you about measuring pitfalls. I tend to be thorough so it might take me some time- I will look over your site to find your email contact.
Thanks!
Thanks, Katherine. I try not to moderate comments TOO much on this site, but they do get abused from time to time.
I do have a Vulture Suits suit, but the company doesn’t have the budget for a review post or sponsorship, so getting a review out has been on the back burner for a while.
For what it’s worth, the suit fits pretty well – definitely better than other MTM vendors I’ve worked with.
Customer service really is not great – and also that they don’t seem to have any quality control before shipments are sent.
Here is my experience:
I was happy with the quality of the fabric (suit in Merino Wool) and the cut – it really fits quite well. With the exception of the shirt where the sleeves are a good inch and a bit too long (astonishing, as the jacket fits well). Craftsmanship also quite ok.
Only problem: a small cut in one of the trousers just to the side of the pocket. I am jumping through hoops with their customer service…. they find difficult to comprehend that this is not an alteration. And they do not seem to understand that you cannot really run around in a business suit and have an obvious patch on the trouser.
Of course you can “repair” a cut in the fabric – but you will see it clearly. And if you just have it glued it will come apart after a few cleanings.
And now they are telling me that according to their policy they cannot remake the trousers – but max offer me a 20% credit (which I would of course never use as I most certainly will not go through this experience again).
One thing nearly impossible to find is clear measuring instructions. Here is a series of videos that are as close to effective as I have found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngDnW3Qf1bk&list=PLlUeoDRSvcSDuI6aTxvEJXby8On7ocUog
My only objection is the way they define the location of the waist measurement which I think leaves room for error. (Folks’ belly buttons are not all located in the same place on their bodies so it’s not a good touchstone, IMHO) However, the visuals of this video will probably make for “close enough”.
Brock- I would LOVE to see “the definitive series of measuring videos” included in your for sale resources. After 13 years of making flattering and precisely-fit dresses at a distance, I’d even give you some input about how folks get confused and where they make their mistakes. (…just because this field interests me. I wish I had your patience for marketing. My passion is for fit and craft.)
Great idea! It’s really hard since every company seems to have a slight variation on the “proper” method.
Would love to hear your thoughts about common pitfalls with self-measuring. Maybe send me an email?
I am guessing that you really get what you pay for with clothing. I have purchased 2 shirts, a suit, and 2 jackets, and have issues with all of them from T4L. Shirts fit great, but unfortunately, shrunk so much that they no longer fit. One jacket – all of the buttons have fallen off separately since purchasing around christmas – the buttons and fake belt on the back are so high up the back of the jacket that they are almost at the shoulders. The suit was supposed to be an all-season suit, but the material is the same as burlap. I actually think I bought a suit made of burlap – good luck to anyone who tries to pull that off in the business world. The last jacket I got, the inside lining hangs out of the sleeves by a good 3 inches and the front chest zipper pocket is so high up it starts on top of my shoulder. I tried numerous items, but I feel like it is time to give up – none of my complaints are about the size/fit, mainly material, design, quality. I tried communicating with them after they forgot some additional add-ons I paid for and it was impossible to understand what they meant or to convey the message to them.
Give my company a try, im sure you will not be disappointed. Our price point is slightly more expensive than them, but our fabrics and workmanship are far more superior – and most importantly, so is our customer service.
avoid T4L their customer service is appalling.
Do you know any good online tailor’s that do 3 piece tweed suits? Living in Australia is proving difficult to find one that I can actually visit
I think these guys do – https://articlesofstyle.com/
Recently ordered a shirt from T4L. This was my trial order before putting the money out for a suit. I am very happy with the shirt. I have just ordered 2 more. I over measured on the first shirt since I am not am professional tailor. Fits a little large, again it was a trial order. The 2 shirts I just ordered I have reduced all the measurements by 1/2″ except the neck and shoulders. I believe this is a good process if you are going to skip the tailor and order online. If the next 2 shirts are not near perfect, I will make another minor adjustment on the third order. They still fit a great deal better than anything of the rack.
p.s.- just ordered from itailor, will post when I receive to let you know my experience, shirt was about $20 less with more options
I ordered a suit from iTailor in the Fall of 2018 and had an exact experience at Brock has with this company. i am still in the early communications with the company and was planning to review iTailor on my website (GentlemensManual.com) once I complete the post sales work. The suit jacket was made about 2 inches short in all areas and my tailor just laughed at the quality and said there was nothing he could do.To make sure my original measurements were correct, I had them retaken my a professional and the measurements posted on the website were 100% correct. They just messed up the order.
I would guess maybe their shirt and suits are made in different places because because I read a lot of great things about their shirts. Their suits are a very different story.
TJ Totland
http://www.GentlemensManual.com
Hate to say it, but what did you expect from a $200 custom suit?
Hi-
Interesting post! I make made-to-measure wedding dresses- 100% online/at a distance- and have done so for 13 years. Our dresses have a beautiful fit as opposed to the “baggier” and easier fit that my competitors offer. We provide OUTSTANDING customer service and we are truly like bird dogs in quest of a gorgeous fit- we go to the ends of the earth for our customers.
Here is my problem with your review and perspective. If a customer reports that you did not follow the body measurements they provided and thus the garment does not fit, asking the customer to show you *how* they measured is essential because we are so careful and expert at what we do, whereas asking a non-professional to measure either the garment or the body is fraught with errors and pitfalls.
We rarely have a problem garment that requires alterations, but when there is an error, in 199 out of 200 cases, it was the customer’s mis-measurement, not ours. Asking a custom garment maker to remake is extremely expensive for the manufacturer. They are not only going to lose their profit, they are going to be shouldering a loss. The manufacturer SHOULD remake- absolutely- if they made an error. But given that the error is almost always on the part of the customer, the manufacturer must see *how* the customer took the measurement (either the body measurement of the garment measurement) to be sure the manufacturer really did make an error. The customer-at-a-distance who enjoys the discount offered by online custom garment makers also must expect to make a commitment of time and effort to achieve the fit. The process is a partnership. If they want convenience and don’t want to be bothered with providing very accurate measurements and photos as required, they should go to someone local to buy their custom garment and pay the price of U.S. wages, U.S. retail overhead, etc.
All 3 ordered shirts from T4L have come with the sleeves by 12cm shorter than ordered. Photos sent to support, but was still not enough for them to reproduce the order. They make me send it by post to their Quality Control Center in Barcelona FOR MY OWN ACCOUNT. Very disappointing.
The moment I looked at the suit and top coat I’d just received from T4L, I KNEW I was in trouble! I was already scolding myself for not doing my homework, to check online reviews before plowing a head and, ordering TWO garments, with no reason behind that level of confidence.
It has been difficult to describe how ill-fitting the garments are but, it is like I am trying to wear clothes belonging to someone else. The pants are at least four inches short of even fastening. They make my rear end look like two melons suspended in a pair of nylons. I am almost immobilized in the top coat and, the side vents make the back of it stick out like an extended wing flap. Both the suit coat and top coat feel thin, lacking sufficient layers of canvasing and absent of batting material. The shoulders sag in the middle because the pads do not provide adequate support and shape.
My complaints were first met with links to the T4L “No refunds, No exceptions” policy. That’s a good start. It grew into the same push and pull you described to a tee. A thread of emails have now been exchanged, each one instructing me through a series of exercises, obtaining measurements and taking pictures, one set wearing the garments I received, another set wearing a suit from my closet. Each email is sprinkled with insinuations that I lack understanding or knowledge…..such as, “we will ask you to send us the measurements of your garments, which you think are incorrect or a picture of them (with a measuring tape in it,” It all feels more like a process of proving my claims and complaints rather than a means to resolving them. Today I received an email which reads like the ruling of an arbitration hearing, giving me two choices; either return the garments for evaluation, at my expense or, measure the garments again, taking pictures of the tape across each area being measured. My order will be remade without charge but shipped at my expense, again….$50.
Any expectation this will end favorably is slipping and I now have even more questions. My garments were shipped from China but the address I was given to return them to the “Quality Control department sends the return to: Edificio B1, 4a Planta, Puerta 18, 08174 Sant Cugat del Valles SPAIN. Huh? Where is this company located, exactly?
Now, I have found something which may be a problem for T4L. I cannot find a label attached to the garments disclosing the country of origin, fabric content and care instructions. This label is required under U.S. Textile and Wool Acts, enforced by the FTC and, U.S. Boarder Protection and Customs, under the North American Free Trade Agreement and other Customs Acts. T4L does not qualify for any of the allowable exemptions. I have checked.
Lets face it. Once a new customer experience has devolved into this, it’s over. I am going to present what may be my ace card in the form of a simple question put to them in an email and see where it goes. I hope others learn from your advice and my experience. My late grandfather Rudy was right…..”cheap is often expensive”.
Your story is one of the reasons why i started my own MTM suit company. Most cheap mtm places make their suits in a dirt cheap factory setting, where those making the suits have little to no actual tailoring experience. They simply sew cloths together. On top of that is the standard bad customer service. Now from the standpoint of a company, they have to differentiate whether the mistakes lie with the customer’s measurements or tailoring errors. If it is tailoring error, they should be replaced with no cost to the customer. If it is the customer’s error, with my company’s policy, the customer can get local alterations with the company covering the cost up to the stated limit, or send the suit back for free alteration with free return shipping given the customers pay for shipping the suit back. Obviously purchasing at a much more expensive store will cover all the shipping costs, but you end up paying for services which u dont need if you dont need an entire remake (considering the extra cost of shipping returns/remakes is included in the high price). So it is about balance, and not about being the cheapest or the most expensive.
Hello guys! I’m in Manchester, England and getting married soon in may. Can u direct me to a good and proven company
If you’ve never tried it before, going online MTM for your wedding suit is pretty risky.
Is there a local tailor who can help you out?
If so, check out a department store, find something that will fit really well with minimal alterations.
Just received a disappointing woman’s shirt. If had met my approval had planned to refer more.
Does either of the two companies create women’s suits as well?
It is really odd that this page is covered in Indochino ads… Is that by accident somehow?
PS. Really enjoy the site and the discourse here. I’m trying to decide where to buy my brother in law a MTM suit for xmas on a tighter budget but still hoping for a decent fit. This is all very helpful!
Haha no it’s not an accident. But it’s not my choice, either. Indochino didn’t buy this ad space from me. That particular ad space is sold by an “ad network” who manages my ad inventory.
Indochino is showing up because this page is relevant (it’s about custom suits), or maybe even because you’ve visited their site before, and they’re retargeting you.
Unfortunately I ordered before seeing this and here is my situation which is essentially the same. Before I even ordered I asked about the guaranteed to fit claim as I do not have an average body type. I was told not too worry. I put in all my measurements in an inch big just to be on the safe side and the waist an inch and a half bigger. Well when the package arrived from China the pants were about 5 inches too short and the waist which I ordered over an inch and a half larger, I could not even button. Long story short, I battled back and forth with them for almost 2 months and each time I responded answering a question they had , they had more. I had to send pics of the suit both on and off. When the pants were clearly too short they asked me to take them to a tailor to see if they could be fixed. Can’t add material onto the pants. My advise is just too suck it up and pay the 700.00 to have a suit made in person if you have any muscle mass. I couldn’t lift my arms at all or I would have ripped the stitching from the arm pit of the jacket. Also the material is cheap but I guess I should have expected that for $200.00. Guess I will drop this suit off at goodwill.
yea, that is usually the case when purchasing from companies that produce suits in a large factory – the people that sew the suits together are paid low wages and often times get the measurements wrong.
Just launched a new store for custom suits. My goal is to offer tailored suits at/above Indochino quality at Tailor4Less prices. Let me know if anyone is interested and I can give them some coupons to get started. http://www.vulturesuits.com
Hi Cecil,
I haven’t tried Indochino in a while, but when I did, I wasn’t very happy with the fit. That said, if you can offer any sort of quality at T4L prices, that would be an accomplishment.
Congrats on your launch! Feel free to email me (brock at themodestman dot com).
Thanks Brock for your kind words. Usually large e-tailors like indochino make the suits bigger than your given sizes as they would rather give you a slightly bigger suit that fits than one that doesn’t. Indochino offers free remakes if you’re not happy, but at our prices we are unable to do so. So we hope people who know their sizes well can order from us and they will get a top-quality, well-fitted suit from us at about 60% of the bigger company’s prices.
That’s an interesting concept. I don’t know many people who know their measurements well enough to order a MTM suit that fits properly. I have trouble with this myself, and I’ve ordered many custom suits and shirts.
Just my two cents, but MTM without remakes sounds risky. I think most people go the MTM route because they want a suit that fits better than OTR, but that doesn’t mean they know their measurements. Even if you do know your measurements, that’s not enough info to make a suit that fits great without multiple fittings.
Since you don’t offer remakes, what are you doing to ensure great fit?
One of the leather jacket retailers I use which does MTM leathers has a service where they send you out a test jacket and they then make adjustments based on that. The customer can offer suggestions and also send pictures back to the company who can make further adjustments going by what they see in the photos.
So, sending out a cheap suit whose measurements have been carefully checked can be used to determine a customers size.
If a customer follows our sizing guide carefully and has the correct measurements, the chance of getting an unfit suit with us is small. We even ask customers to upload a picture of themselves to assist in our master tailor judging the posture and body shape of the client. Unlike most other MTM companies, our suits are NOT produced in a factory, but in a tailor shop. In the rare instance where small local alteration cannot be done, we can offer customers a remake on a case by case basis. Our goal is to make our customers happy with both the price they pay and the products they receive.
I’d love to give your shop a try, Cecil!
Feel free to contact me anytime, I can give visitors some additional discounts. 🙂
Hi Cecil,
1) where do I email to get the extra starter coupons you mention. 2) I looked over the site and see you’re in Toronto. Does that mean prices are in CAD – I can’t find that specified anywhere.
Thanks,
Jay
hey jay, feel free to contact me via my email: [email protected]
Cecil, are there any reviews out their for your company? I couldn’t find any customer reviews of photos of your products besides the ones on the website. Let me know!
Hi Brock! There isn’t an official review for our suits out there that i know of. That’s probably because we are a very new company. 😀 Perhaps after the Christmas hectic, I can send you a suit for review in early January? (if you’re not too busy with your own line of shirt, which btw looks fantastic. :D)
Looks like someone left a review on SF:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/511146/suit-review-for-vulture-suits
Would love to know more about your fabrics/construction, especially since the price is lower than most MTM companies I’ve worked with.
Feel free to get in touch via email.
Ah yes, although that is not a very professional review 🙂 Our suits are made of 100% wool with fabrics ranging from 265 gsm super 120s to 380 gsm super 100s. All of our suits are half-canvased, made in a tailor shop rather than a factory, and with our master tailor cutting each suit himself and the tailor team putting them together.. The reason why it is so cheap is because we are currently selling them almost at-cost as we want more people to try them out.
Hi Brock,
I see that in a previous comment you said “these pants had lots of extra fabric through the leg and seat. I had them tailored, and they fit great now – nice and slim and tapered below the knee.”
I was just curious to see if you could possibly…maybe…perhaps put up a pic of you wearing the pants to see the before and after pics. The T4Less vs your tailored pants.
I’m new to your site. I got directed here by one of Aaron Marino’s youtube videos.
I’m pretty short around 5feet 3inches so it’s supers hard to find great clothes, so far i’m really enjoying your site.
Hey Luis – here’s the original review for those pants:
https://www.themodestman.com/tailor4less-review/
You can see that I had them shortened and tapered through the leg.
Welcome to the site! I’m a big fan of Aaron’s as well!
DO NOT use tailor4less what this company should be called is TAILORLESS no tailor is involved in the rubbish they churn out and if you want proof I am more than happy to upload the shoddy goods they sent me! Two tailors viewing the coat agree no tailor was involved in the production of that coat , there are many flaws but the biggest one which cannot be rectified was the pockets they had placed them so high they cut right across the waistband and they had failed to put any belt loops at the front of the coat had they done so they would of been sat right on top of the pockets. When I sent photos they asked me to return the coat at my own cost to another country which would cost a fortune I pointed out in the terms if a product could not be repaired they donate it to charity so why do they want to put me to more expense! They have no intention of replacing the product nor of refunding money they are dishonest scam firm anyone getting anything decent off this company is LUCKY check out all the independent reviews and anyone wanting pictures I will happily provide them.
Great post, Brock! I think you really illustrate how customer service (or the lack thereof) can make all the difference. Had they been a bit more responsive and helpful, you would have had an entirely different experience. And the fact that they’ve made no effort to comment (at least that I can tell) speaks volumes. Won’t be working with them!
I’d also include Luxire as a MTM online company that has a customer-unfriendly returns/remake/fit policy. I had a shirt made by them that did not fit well. There was a weird crease running from neck line to arm pit and the sleeves were so wide it were as if they thought I had Popeye biceps and forearms. In my communications with them they appeared to accept that the shirt did not fit well but said I’d have to a) pay for returns postage plus pay half the price of the remake. The total cost would have been almost as it I bought another shirt so I did not bother. The shirt sits in my closet as a reminder to tread carefully the next time I deal with online MTMs.
Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a terrible experience. It’s too bad that one negative MTM experience can make people wary of trying it again.
I have heard so many horror stories about Luxire. They seem to get business by sponsoring web sites to insure a lot of friendly reviews. I almost ordered from them once but thought better of it.
Hi Brock,
Thanks for heads up on t4l. Perfect timing also, because I been browsing online for a custom fit shirt. At the moment I been buying Express modern fit shirts, which fit great, and they’re photographer slim fit pants. Thanks again for the advice and your reviews.
I’ve ordered shirts from several online MTM and I’ve run into two problems. First is that it is very difficult to get the fit exactly right. I might try to use a company where they physically take your measurements. The other issue is more subtle. Unlike my store bought shirts, it seems like my MTM shirts look like different parts of the shirt stitched together. I understand that’s how all shirts are made but other shirts I own look like a cohesive shirt. MTM sometimes looks like it’s just various parts cobbled together (collar did not sit exactly right, arm connections seemed a little off, cuffs seemed too wide for the size of the sleeves etc….)
Brock,
First, I am not so sure of your analysis of the suit fit. The jacket length looks fine, maybe too short in the back, though it could be the camera angle, who knows. The biceps issue I can’t figure at all. Seems fine to me.
The pants are maybe a bit long if you like a minimal or no break, which I know you do. Personally, I can’t see the pants being tapered without the result being a skinny linen suit, which is odd.
The suit looks like it could have used a steam or press first, before trying it on. I am wondering if some of what you don’t like is simply the result of the typical behavior of linen and how it falls.
Lastly, let me ask you. Do you think you are confusing made-to-measure with bespoke? I don’t expect the attention to detail in MTM that I get from my tailor. I just want to avoid basic problems like a shirt being too long in the sleeve or too tight at the neck. Tightening up the details is something I wouldn’t even try with a mail order MTM house. Are your expectations too high or mine too low?
Overall, as I said, I think the suit needs a press. The jacket isn’t darted is it? It does look a bit boxy through the lower torso, which darts or waist suppression might help. I am not a tailor obviously, but it doesn’t look like anything that couldn’t be easily adjusted by a pro.
Hey Steve,
Thanks for your analysis. That’s the sort of detailed feedback I expected from the company! To your points:
The back does look short because of the up camera angle. Length is a matter of preference, and these days jackets tend to be on the short side. But I do like them just long enough, and this one is a bit long for my taste.
Re: pant length – keep in mind, in the photos, I’m wearing loafers. You’re right, I like no break, but I usually wear lace ups with suits. For me, if pants are breaking over loafers, they’re too long.
Trust me – these pants had lots of extra fabric through the leg and seat. I had them tailored, and they fit great now – nice and slim and tapered below the knee.
The suit actually wasn’t that wrinkly out of the box, which was surprising. I also let it sit for a while before taking those pics.
You’ll never get bespoke results with MTM, at least not now (who knows, maybe in the future when body scanning actually works). But bespoke and MTM fall under the umbrella of “custom”, so I do use the word custom interchangeably with made-to-measure.
Re: expectations – they’re pretty low for new companies that I haven’t worked with yet. But for MTM in general, they’re high. I’ve seen how good MTM can be, especially if you’re measured in person (but even if not).
Nope, jacket isn’t darted. It could be taken in, but with the other issues a remake would make more sense.
Overall, I see your point. It’s not a train wreck in terms of fit. But it’s definitely not something I would wear as-is. My real issue was the lack of customer service around fixing the problem and making me a happy customer. It’s not about the initial results, which are never perfect. It’s about how it’s handled, and this wasn’t handled well in my opinion.
Thoughts?
Brock,
That answered a lot of questions.
I suppose you have to go with the company you trust. I only use made to measure with shirts as I cringe at the thought of all the possible miscommunication that can happen with a full suit.
Thanks
Cheers for the heads up Brock. I swear by http://www.itailor.com for tailor made shirts, but can’t comment on their tailored suits. Maybe worth a try though. They also do custom made shoes which look pretty cool!
Hmm haven’t tried them yet. I’ll check them out, thanks!
Thank you for providing an honest opinion. Its rare to see someone give you a buyer beware warning in this sector.
I think many bloggers just don’t publish bad reviews. I’m guilty of this too – basically not saying anything instead of saying something negative.
But in this case, someone could waste a lot of money working with the wrong company.
Good for you Brock. I think you’ve presented a very fair and objective review. You certainly highlighted how careful you need to be with on-line MTM. Never say never, but on-line isn’t my thing at present. I happen to enjoy the choosing and trying on of clothes and it helps that I’ve found a good tailor for OTR alterations and I’ve also dipped my toe into MTM with similarly good results.
Thanks! Yeah, online MTM is still pretty tough to get right. Nothing beats real, in person tailoring, although some companies are getting really good – mostly because of their awesome customer service.
Weird. Did you give them an opportunity to comment on this article?
I told them I was writing it but didn’t hear back. They’re free to leave a comment!
Hi Brock, shocking company, I designed a blazer on their website, and it came back with buttons in wrong place. Having spoken to them they suggested seeing a local tailor to rectify, when I took it to my local guy he just laughed and asked who had made the jacket! the cut was bordering on ridiculous! my local guy said you would have to make a new jacket, its not physically possible to alter buttons as holes have already been cut and it looks like a bag of you know what!! I told t4l the situation and they said send it back to us in Spain…me picking the bill up for shipping!! first they tried offering a credit note?? why would I buy something else from them that was a frankly disaster? so now I have sent documents to Catalan consumer affairs in Barcelona and EU Commission consumer protection.Strangely when I looked at the address on google earth and other Spanish search engines it comes up as offices above a chinese restaurant called Wok Gran Siglo, which wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest!! do not use.
I own a dry cleaning, laundry and alteration store here in the US. I figured even if it doesn’t fit my team of tailors can repair it. I ordered a tuxedo and it arrived miss-cut, poor fitting and poorly made. None of my staff were able to correct the issues or craftsmanship. They agreed by the photos then asked to have it shipped back to Spain so they can donate it to charity, then will remake the suit and I will have to pay another shipping charge. Shipping to Spain for the donation is 75.00 from the US when I can walk to the local charity center for free. They are very uncooperative and stern with returns, Shop locally first, it may take a small effort but you can avoid a big hassle and lost money